Barry Opens a Dialogue with ATW Readers: Sexism & Domestic Violence

(Note: These are the words of Barry Goldstein and do not necessarily reflect the views, position, or beliefs of Among the Wolves. ATW strives to remain neutral, and present the information so You, the Reader, can come to your own conclusions.)
 
Barry Goldstein has read the reader comments on ATW and graciously offered a dialogue so he (his own words),”concentrate on how the material impacts you and the questions you have“. Barry is offering his thoughts, and looking forward to receiving your thoughts and/or feedback in return. This is not a “formal” article but rather a response generated by ATW reader comments, and general observation Barry has made in his years of experience working in the legal profession, and as a domestic violence advocate.
 
As always, please keep comments related to this post and maintain a respectful tone. We look forward to continuing this dialogue with you. Also feel free to leave any additional questions, comments or concerns that may not have been covered here.
 
Thank you Barry, and thank you ATW Readers!
 
Barry, Thursday, May 30, 2013 at 9:12 AM:
 
1) We focus on sexism because sexism is the cause of domestic violence.
 
Part of the problem is that sexism like other oppressions is often invisible particularly to those who receive unearned advantages which in the case of sexism are men. I think it is important to understand that what we mean by sexism is different than is usually understood in the rest of the world. Most people think of sexism as something extreme like a crude joke, sexual assault or the kind of things Rush Limbaugh would say. In reality a lot of sexism is subtle and unconscious. That means that good people engage in sexism.
 
I was just talking last night in class about my experience as a new instructor and watching other new instructors since then. Inevitably a new male instructor will say or do something that is sexist and someone will tell them that it is offensive. Every new instruct has reacted by trying to say that we misunderstood or let me rephrase, but we ask them to be silent and listen and try to figure out why they were told it was sexist because it almost certainly was. The same process occurs when we speak of racism, heterosexism and other oppressions.
 
It is of course hard to hear that I said something sexist, racist, offensive, etc but in reality someone being willing to tell us this is giving us a valuable gift. It is difficult and often unsafe for someone from a marginalized group, like women when we speak about sexism to tell someone they did something offensive. Accordingly we need to make them feel safe to do so. Otherwise no one will tell us when we offended. When I say safe it means more than just not assaulting or threatening them, but being open to what they are saying, promising to change and not being defensive. I think too many people are quick to take offense when someone shares how their behavior has impacted them.
 
2) One of the places I want to take this discussion is to understand that in our society there is a huge difference between men and women, the privileges we have and how we are perceived. That is the context for everything that happens.
 
Too often courts and others seek to create a false sense of equivalency between men and women and this favors men because they have so many advantages in this society. Very often situations that seem the same on the surface are really very different.
 
Lynn Hecht Schafran wrote a wonderful article called Evaluating the Evaluators that illustrates how gender bias works in the courts. She tells the story of a new psychologist who is assigned to evaluate a young family. She goes to the father’s home and it is a complete mess with no food in the refrigerator. The evaluator writes that the father lives in a typical bachelor apartment. When she visits the mother’s home it is somewhat messy but not as bad as the father’s. She has food in the refrigerator but not as much as preferred. The evaluator writes the mother lives in a messy apartment with inadequate food. The evaluator has a supervisor because she was new and the supervisor asked if she saw what she had done. She was shocked at the gender biased approach she used and quickly corrected her report. I love this story because it shows how easy it is for someone acting in total good faith, and even a woman (by a process called internalized sexism) would engage in gender bias. So many of our assumptions are automatically colored by stereotypes so that the many gender bias committees appointed by courts have found that women are given a higher standard than men.
 
Periodically we will see news articles based on deeply flawed studies that suggest women abuse men almost as often as men abuse women. This is based on bad practices such as just counting the hits and a failure to understand dv dynamics. We often see cases where a man hits a woman, woman hits a man and it is treated the same, but there are three important differences. In general men are bigger and stronger, hit harder and cause more serious injuries. The second is that men hit women to maintain control and coerce compliance while women hit men in self-defense and to make him stop his abuse. Most important it is very common for women to be afraid of their male partner, afraid he will kill or seriously hurt her so that she will given in, do whatever she thinks he wants, let him make the decision. It virtually never happens that the man is so afraid of his female partner, that she will kill or seriously hurt him that he does whatever he thinks she wants. Nevertheless, court professionals with no understanding of dv dynamics often treat these situations as if they were mutual.
 
I will stop here and gauge your reaction and then we can continue. Hope you will find this useful.
 
Barry  
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45 thoughts on “Barry Opens a Dialogue with ATW Readers: Sexism & Domestic Violence

  1. BARRY, here is my question…

    Jane is a DV survivor who meets Dick, her new b/f. They need some cash so Jane & Dick rob a bank together, they both commit the crime, they are working together. There are many victims hurt by the robbery.

    SO b.c. society is sexist, and Jane is a victim of DV aka male privilege..is she less guilty than Dick?

    If Jane walks into the bank with a gun, wearing a disguise during the robbery should we be less afraid of her b.c she is a woman, and does not have the same power as a man does?

    If Jane & Dick are arrested, could Jane used sexism & male privilege as a legal defense?

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    • What I was referencing was intimate relationships between men and women and to understand that men have unearned privileges that are often invisible to the men. Assuming Dick did not coerce Jane to participate in the bank robbery none of this would apply.

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  2. Not all men are sexist, just look at Pap.. he has done alot to help women, and like he said gave money to an abused women, plus Pap is a fan of you, Barry.

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    • I certainly agree that there are many good men who believe women should be treated with respect and wish to support protective mothers. But all men are sexist in the sense that we have unearned privileges and we must be every conscious of our privilege in order to avoid acting in a sexist way. Why do men feel the need to deny we are sexist or whites to deny we are racist. That just comes from living in a sexist and racist society. Only be being aware of our unearned privileges can we avoid hurtful behavior. I understand that oppression theory is new to many people and can seem off because it is so different from the misinformation we have heard all our lives, but it is hugely rewarding if you make the effort to understand.

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  3. Good one, J.W. Barry, my man! What are you thinking? Yes there is sexism in our society,but Barry that does not excuse a female criminal of her crimes. I bet you would think differently if you were Travis Alexander. Oh, wait. that’s right, Jody was a D.V victim, (yeah right!) All victims of self defense stab their prey 27 times, shoot them in the head ,also slice their throat .Have you ever heard the saying” two wrongs don’t make a right?” There are plenty of women oppressed who know how to live within the law, since this is the case why should the few who don’t be excused? Jane is just as guilty as Dick. What if Dick was raped as a child by his dad. Should we excuse his behavior if he turns into a pedophile? Oh that’s right, he is a man with male privilege , so he should be held accountable. What about female pedophiles. Female teachers who prey on their students? We let them slide because of male privilege, even though they damaged young lives? Nope strangest theory I ever heard. But thanks for sharing.

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    • You have misunderstood my position, but don’t feel bad because that is quite common. From our perspective domestic violence are coercive and controlling tactics that men commit against their intimate partners for the purpose of maintaining a system that gives men power over women. The one thing we know for sure is that women do not abuse men FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAINTAINING A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS MEN POWER OVER WOMEN. What we are saying is that when someone commits an act from a position of power and privilege that act is fundamentally different that when it is done by someone from a disadvantaged group. All we are saying is that actions that look the same on the surface are really very different when considered in context. The misunderstanding comes when you assume that because what a woman does to a man is fundamentally different than what a man does to a woman that we are saying it is ok for a woman to assault, kill or otherwise commit crimes that hurt men. Certainly women can be offensive, disrespectful, assaultive to men and if they violate the law they should be punished. All we are saying is that in our sexist society we need to be aware of the differences in the way men and women are treated.

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  4. I am a Barry fan. He has done much good for the mothers’ movement. I must say I am a little disappointed with the tone of this post. It feels somewhat preachy. Maybe it is just me, but although sexism does exist, not everyone will agree to take it to this extreme. There are many reasons for the culture of DV in our country. It is a complicated issue. Sexism is only one cause, and because sexism exists we need to find a way to correct this mind-set, while at the same time ,still hold women accountable for their actions. To do otherwise would be to replace male privilege with female privilege when our goal is balance and equality. So while the premise of this post is correct, the tone is off-putting. Making it sound as if we all need ” educating”. No, we may just not agree. it might be as simple as that. But I feel this is an important dialog to have. Thank you Barry for starting it. A.T.W-good work.

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    • I have had the enormous privilege of working in a NY Model Batterer Program for the last 13 years and to receive weekly training from Phyllis B. Frank who is one of the most brilliant leaders in the movement to prevent men’s violence against women and on batterer programs. I had worked in the movement to end domestic violence for 17 years before I ever met Phyllis so I was already fairly knolwedgeable, but have learned so much more since. One of the points Phyllis often makes is not to be critical of people who have different views because a few weeks, months or years ago, we had the same views. I wanted to share what I have learned because I think it is enormously useful and I am hoping it can help moderate the hostilities. The fact is that we all receive constant misinformation particularly about issues of oppression. That is why what I am saying sounds off to many people. I am trying to create this dialogue to share and discuss a different perspective. It often takes new instructors many months or years before it finally clicks. For anyone who is interested I hope you will make the effort to understand what this perspective is before trying to judge it. We are involved in very difficult work and obviously the professionals in the custody courts do not understand. This perspective has helped me personally and professinally. I hope to promote a discussion about it for anyone who is interested.

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  5. I agree Barry. There is sexism to be found in places most would not notice. Some women are as sexist against their own as the men. Good job Barry for bringing this out. Really like your blog Barry. Lots of terrific posts and shining the light on that AMPP and Claudine the way you did. So needed. Well done.

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  6. Thank you, NK. You are right that women can have the same ideas as men because women also live in a sexist society and receive the same misinformation that men receive. In the case of women it is called internalized sexism, just as there is internalized racism.

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  7. I lived in a violent relationship for a long time. It took alot of work but now I’m free and starting my life over again. I’m a mom raising a son who is almost 15 now, and really proud of the man he is growing into. I have worked really hard to get help for my family and even joined Circle of Parents. It’s hard to believe all men are sexist and have the potential to hurt women bc it doesnt give me alot of hope. I want to be happily married again to someone who really loves me and treats me good. And I want to believe the progress I believe the good in my son is for real, that he wont be the man his father (now in jail) is. I wish you could meet my son. He volunteers with the kids at church. Gets good grades. And is so good to me. My son shows no sign of being sexist, he is very upfront. Where is the hope for moms like me?

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  8. Congratulations on escaping from an abusive partner and raising a wonderful son. You are to be commended and I am glad you are making it a priority to teach him values that include treating girls and women respectfully. When I say all men are sexist, I mean that we have unearned privileges and we need to make a conscious effort to avoid acting on our sexism. There are many wonderful men who seek to treat their partners respectfully and make it safe for her to tell him if he does something that makes her uncomfortable. I serve on the Council for the National Organization for Men Against Sexism. I work with many men and some women in NOMAS who try to set good examples and work to support protective mothers. So what I am saying does not mean your son will become abusive or that you cannot find a safe partner. It is a lot easier and more likely for men to avoid disrepectful behavior if we acknowledge our unearned privileges and constantly think about how our behavior could impact women.

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  9. Barry. I am a Lawless supporter. This is a fascinating discussion, but I fail to see how this relates to the ” Mothers’ Manifesto”. I also am not clear on how this relates to what AMPP and Claudine has done to Bill Windsor, and others. Please explain.

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    • I am not sure about Lawless, but I think there is much more that unites than divides the protective mothers on both sides of this dispute. What is most important is for the courts to stop using deeply flawed practices that place so many children at risk. There is a lot of new research that demonstrates the enormous lifetime health problems caused by exposing children to domestic violence, child abuse and separtion from their primary parent. I am very grateful to Phyllis B. Frank and other experts who have shared this analysis with me. I believe it can be life changing and I hope it can give us a little different perspective. Bill has attacked me and yet I never made any personal attacks against him. What he objected to is that I have said I do not believe he understands the gendered nature of these issues. The same could be said about most men and a lot of women. It could truthfully have been said about me until I learned the perspective. Indeed this is normal in our sexist society. It is very difficult for a man working in this movement to sit and listen to the perspective and to know we have engaged in a lot of sexist behavior. In most cases we did not do this deliberately but because of all the misinformation we received all of our lives. In our training when someone, particularly from a marginalized group tells us that something we have done is sexist, racist or otherwise offensive, we consider this a gift because it is hard to tell someone this and otherwise we would not recognize our offensive conduct. Obviously Bill did not take my statement as a gift. I think it will be really useful to understand context and to know that men have a lot of unearned privileges including the ability to define things. I think this is something Bill has done repeatedly and in fairness most men do. I believe men in this movement, and it is not clear that Bill is part of this movement, need to give careful consideration to how their behavior impacts women. He may believe he was unfairly attacked and he could even be right, but that would not justify the kind of responses he has made and particularly actions that could impact the cases of protective moms because that means he is hurting innocent children. Many of the women he has attacked are legitimately protective mothers and that would not give them the right to make unfair attacks, but it doesn’t change the fact that the children do not deserve to remain with abusers. I don’t know what training Bill has had in domestic violence and oppression theory, but it seems he does not understand because he has repeatedly acted in ways that failed to consider the impact he has as a man in a patriarchal society. In this he is normal, but I’d like to think our goal should be better than that.

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  10. “Periodically we will see news articles based on deeply flawed studies that suggest women abuse men almost as often as men abuse women. This is based on bad practices such as just counting the hits and a failure to understand dv dynamics.” Barry. do you recognize other forms of abuse or just physical. Do you agree that some women can be very verbally and emotionally abusive to men, without the man striking back or talking back? I personally know a few of these situations. So, it’s not always a man who is abusive when it comes to verbal and emotional abuse. This has nothing to do with male priviledge, but abusive personalities or personality disorders that both men and women can have

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    • I certainly believe that domestic violence is far more than physical assaults and in fact most domestic violence is neither physical nor illegal. I would also agree that women can attack men in verbal and emotional ways but I would not call it abuse. In some cases these are defensive responses to his abuse, but other times there is no justification. What I am trying to discuss is the false equivalency commonly created between how men and women interact with their partners. There is a long history of men having power and control and even ownership of their wives. There was never a time when wives controlled their husbands. It is not helpful to talk about exceptions instead of what occurs most of the time. The first domestic violence law in this country said that husbands could not beat their wives ON SUNDAY. In other words any other time it was ok. Although the laws have changed, this history still matters as many men believe they are entitled to control their partners and make the major decisions in the relationship. A lot of the misconceptions about domestic violence is caused by the tendency to look at each incident separately and to find things women do that look the same as what men do. This is one of the frequent mistakes we see in the court. Domestic violence is a pattern of abusive tactics used by men who believe they have the right to control their partners. It is rare in our society that women engage in a similar coercive pattern or believe they are entitled to control their partners. It is not rare for women to commit individual acts that look like what men do to women. Indeed a common tactic of abusive fathers in court is to take their actions and their partner’s out of context. One way you can tell the difference is that women are frequently afraid their partners will kill or seriously hurt them and men rarely have this same fear. I am not saying it is ok for women to mistreat their partners or that there should not be consequences. I am only asking that we consider the context and understand the patterns in most of the cases.

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  11. Kyle put up a link to your site..and I wanted to comment

    I have been on Barry Goldstein’s Facebook page the night of June 10th and again during the day on June 11th. I was shocked, and appalled to see the worst kind of blatant lies, personal attacks and attempts at discrediting Janice Levinson and Protective Mothers Alliance happening right on Barry’s wall. Those posting included Kyle Wigglesworth and Jennifer Herbert.

    These horrible posts had happening occurring for quite some time–when I became involved, it was clear these posts started June 5th with Kyle Wigglesworth stating PMA helps pedophiles win custody, supports father’s rights groups and other garbage. The remarks Jennifer Herbert were making stated that she would make sure no one ever went to PMA again, and she also threatened to create a hate site about Janice.

    These bullies were publicly attacking Janice and attempting to discredit PMA, Bill Windsor and other individuals that I did not know. They public stated they support AMPP numerous times in their comments. The bullies said horrible lies Including that Janice supports child rapists, that Janice never suffered abuse and needed to prove her injuries to show she is a real protective mom, that PMA charges fees up to $70 for membership, that PMA is a “victim harvester” and that “all PMA is does is pray, Lorraine Tipton kicks ass”, that Lundy should fire Janice and much, much more offensive and vulgar comments. I repeatedly asked for proof, I was sent a link to a blog that had nothing to do with Janice or PMA as “proof”. There was ABSOLUTELY no proof to any of the false and libelous remarks–these comments were clearly made to harass Janice, and attempt to discredit PMA as a whole.

    On June 11th, Kyle Wigglesworth, one of the posters, was online, circling Barry’s page for over 6 hours. It was as if Kyle was waiting to attack anyone who would defend Janice or PMA, and was circling Barry’s blog like a vulture circles it’s prey. Kyle Wigglesworth seemed to confuse Janice with other people, and was not able to stay on topic or directly answer my questions. Kyle even called Barry a “coward”. Only today did Barry remove some of the comments, other hateful posts still remain up on Barry’s wall.

    Barry stated something to the effect of that we all need to get along and put aside our differences so we can focus on the children. Barry did not seem to understand that this not a difference of opinion-it is so called DV advocates belonging to AMPP who are acting unprofessionally and unethically towards other advocates, who are victims to their abuse. Or that what abusers focus on is based on their own selfish needs, they are unwilling to see other people as human beings, worthy of respect and consideration.

    Kyle continued to post. When Janice went online to defend herself, Kyle openly engaged in hostile and threatening behavior. Clearly Barry’s pleas for unity are being drown out by the angry voices of AMPP. It is clear abusers don’t follow the same rules everyone else does, nor can you reason with them. If left to their own devices, abusers will continue to manipulate, control and hurt people. The only remedy is to hold them accountable for their actions, and I believe to remove them from the Mother’s Movement entirely.

    I have repeatedly asked on FB for the Mother’s Movement to take action, to stop the abuse happening with its own ranks. You said your blog takes tips.. investigate this. No one deserves to be treated this way.

    –EJ Perth

    Update Janice’s comments are disappearing from Barry’s post.. why? I hope you are getting screenshots of this.

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  12. I left a comment about cyber bullying on Barry’s wall that looks like it disappeared.. Why??? I feel like I am in the middle of the cover up.. I had to hide my comment so it would stay up. Hey you better get on FB to see this happening now!!

    I posted this to Barry Goldstein’s wall to address the issues of cyber bullying

    1. Instant Messaging/Text Messaging Harassment
    2. Stealing Passwords
    3. Blogs
    4. Web Sites
    5. Sending Pictures through E-mail and Cell Phones
    6. Internet Polling
    7. Interactive Gaming
    8. Sending Malicious Code
    9. Sending Porn and Other Junk E-Mail and IMs
    10. Impersonation [
    4 minutes ago · Like

    Ej Perth This happened to Janice and to Bill.. 10. Impersonation
    Posing as the victim, the cyberbully can do considerable damage . They may post a provocative message in a hate group’s chatroom posing as the victim, inviting an attack against the victim, often giving the name, address and telephone number of the victim to make the hate group’s job easier. They often also send a message to someone posing as the victim, saying hateful or threatening things while masquerading as the victim. They may also alter a message really from the victim, making it appear that they have said nasty things or shared secrets with others.
    4 minutes ago · Like

    http://www.stopcyberbullying.org/how_it_works/direct_attacks.html

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  13. Taking screenshots now as Barry is deleting comments and threatening to unfriend me.. I have cut/paste whole conversation.

    Kyle Wigglesworth nasty comment is still up. Why didn’t Barry remove that?

    Willing to send your blog everything. You gotta see this.

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  14. Barry you stated: “both sides of this dispute.” Please explain what “dispute?” What is the “dispute” about? Please describe the ways this dispute has been voiced, and what resolutions have been suggested? To argue about; this is a online definition for dispute. So what is the back and forth argument about? You see this this is not a ” dispute”. I and others see cyber- bullying with no one standing up for the victims.

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  15. P.D This is clearly cyber-bullying, and some of the worst I have seen. I was witness to Barry’s site last night. How anyone fighting abuse could stand by and do nothing while this was going on is despicable. It does feel like there is a ” cover-up” in the so-called ” Mothers Movement as this is all that makes sense to why this is allowed to continue .

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  16. “Kyle continued to post. When Janice went online to defend herself, Kyle openly engaged in hostile and threatening behavior. Clearly Barry’s pleas for unity are being drown out by the angry voices of AMPP. It is clear abusers don’t follow the same rules everyone else does, nor can you reason with them. If left to their own devices, abusers will continue to manipulate, control and hurt people. The only remedy is to hold them accountable for their actions, and I believe to remove them from the Mother’s Movement entirely.” I saw this horror with my own eyes. Janice was polite throughout and just trying to defend herself. something is really wrong in this ” Mothers Movement” If I were the other leaders , these abusers would’ve been kicked out the first sign of them attacking a fellow protective mom and leader. My understanding is this has been going on for four years. This is a cover-up of some kind. Some sort of financial greedy thing going on with AMPP and all who support? Something is not right.

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  17. I saw it too. Something is very wrong with anyone defending these abusers. Kyle even threatened Bill’s life. I sure hope someone got a screen shot of that. Kyle and AMPP need to be held accountable and go see a really good shrink. Shame on you Barry and others in this movement for continuing to acknowledge these abusers ( as if they are credible) and not kicking them to the curb where they belong.

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  18. OK Barry you said that its important to see another perspective and sometimes people miss things.. how about this…

    -Anna says she was abused by her husband, she lost custody of her child in family court.
    -During the court proceedings it is revealed that Anna has been cyber stalking, harassing and stealing the identity of the Judge, the Gal, the Mediator, the Supervised Visitation Facility and her Ex. She has created fake websites using their name, publishing their photos, and publishing their home address and telephone number. She has called these court professionals “court whores” and accused them of being in pedophile rings. No proof of any of this. She has went on internet chat rooms an assumed their identity and made derogatory remarks using their name/identity.
    -Anna has also used the name and image of her child in a similar manner, and published information about her child all over the internet. Including messages to the child that the father does not love the child and the father is a dangerous abuser. Anna was told repeatedly by the Court to remove internet postings of the child, that this poses a safety risk–and is interfering with the child’s privacy. Anna refuses. The Court then tells Anna to remove the posts or she will be fined, and denied visits with the child. Again Anna refuses. It has gotten so bad the Court will not allow Anna to have access to her child’s records because this is the only way to safe guard her privacy.
    –Anna has other history of cyber stalking and harassing other people
    -Anna an abuse survivor from XYZ Mothers Group gets mad at Barry Goldstein and creates a website at http://www.barrygoldstein.blogspot.com. The blog will be called “Barry Goldstein a Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing. He will lure you in and mercilessly slaughter your children”. Or how about “I am Barry Goldstein I am a (vulgar obscenity)”
    -Anna goes on Barry’s Facebook page and steals Barry’s profile picture. Anna then posts that same profile picture on her fake blog. Next to Barry’s picture is the words “Abusers Advocate. Victim Harvesting.” And “B–“. Or “Sexual Predator”.
    -Anna steals a picture of Barry from the BMCC where he is speaking. Anna posts lies and vile comments about Barry including that he is a “B– Ugly Dog”
    -Anna spreads the fake Barry Goldstein all over the internet, all over Facebook, all over various professional sites then enlists her various friends to do the same, including friends from Australia
    -Innocent people that want to read Barry’s book or learn more about his work accidentally type http://www.barrygoldstein.blogspot.com and come to this hate and lie filled page. Other people do a web search on Barry’s name and this page comes up in the results. Still others are exposed to this page on Facebook postings or someone tells them about it or they see it on a professional site.
    -Barry cannot take down the pages on his own, and he is tormented and mocked when he asks them to cease and desist. Any attempts to defend himself result in more attacks.
    -Anna includes Barry’s e-mail address on the web page, says that he enjoys perverted things and encourages people to e-mail him, and includes his real e-mail address
    -Anna includes the name of XYZ Mothers Group on the page and the name of a fellow group of bullies to identify the creator of the page

    But there is more! Anna and XYZ Mothers Group are making YouTube Videos, Facebook Pages, pictures using Barry’s image and other internet sites of similar content. Anna is publishing Barry’s home address and a map to his house online, and stating she will contact his neighbors. Anna is filing false FBI reports. Anna is contacting other professionals working with Barry. Anna is scaring away anyone that would work with Barry. Anna is threatening Barry that he better not show up to the BMCC. Anna has stolen the names of Barry’s parents and created fake FB profiles, including a page where his dead mother is depicted as a decaying corpse (and they are making disgusting sexual remarks that I cannot repeat). Anna has went on the web pages of fellow advocates to continue these attacks. Anna created a listing for Barry on a site that rates his business and said he is a fraud and a con and hurts abuse victims.

    What is Barry to do?
    Would it be wrong for Barry to-
    *File criminal charges to get Anna and XYZ Mothers Group to pull down the pages and stop the cyber bullying
    *Publicly denounce Anna, and XYZ Mothers Group
    *Publicly reveal the fake names Anna is hiding behind online to conceal her activity
    *Publicly state he will not work with XYZ Mothers Group or Supporters bc their actions are criminal
    *Make a YouTube video denouncing the attacks and defending his good name
    *Report Anna to Facebook, YouTube and the other sites

    Or would that make Barry a sexist? Would that mean Barry is taking things out of context? That Barry doesn’t have a right to defend himself, his family, his career and reputation? That Barry is blind to how things really are.

    Visit this hate site AMPP created with the image of Janice Levinson and Bill Windsor on it: http://www.janicelevinson.blogspot.com
    See how the name of the site is in Janice’s name, but she is not the author.
    Everything I mentioned in this post is happening to either Janice or Bill–they are the victims.

    How would you feel if this was happening to you, Barry? Would your response be the same? I am just wondering..

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  19. J.W OMG I had no idea it was that bad! What is wrong with those people?. What is wrong with those in the movement? Seems planned and organized attacks. Maybe an investigation on them is in order?.

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  20. Crazy people ! I saw it all too. Made me sick and triggered my PTSD. i was only an observer! I feel for Janice and Bill. How brave of them to keep going through all this abuse to help us moms. Anyone going NEAR AMPP is equally Nuts!

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  21. I dont understand how Barry and others can call themselves DV advocates and do nothing about this! Won’t be buying any books from these people anytime soon.

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  22. I saw that awful display on Barry’s fb wall last night. Made my stomach turn. I am very afraid of AMPP. They are ruthless abusers. Worse than my soon to be ex, Go to them for comfort, and advice about my situation? Ha!

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  23. OMG I saw the attacks on Janice. She is a wonder. How she keeps going with grace, I don’t know how she does it. That Kyle guy was so cruel. Anyone could tell he was lying. It all made me want to puke. These people need to be in jail

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  24. Cyber bullying on Janice was bad,bad,bad! Something is very wrong for this to go on on a DV advocates’ wall. I hope atw investigates this.

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  25. I saw the comments on Barry’s wall from Kyle about Janice. He was nasty and abusive. Clearly all lies. I am rethinking getting involved in any mothers movement. Who needs this?

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  26. Barry’s FB wall was filled with hate last night and lies and abuse. Barry u have a FB friend that acts like this? u r a DV advocate? Shame on u

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  27. I must say E.J you, Janice and Gayle handled yourselves with dignity and humor last night. Saw it all. I especially enjoyed when you switched topics on him and talked about recipes. Got some good ones last night, and Hello Kitty duck tape, who knew?

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  28. I CANNOT BELIEVE he threatened Bill Windsor right on face book. I saw it with my own eyes. What is this world coming to when people get away with this stuff?

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  29. I am a PMA member hoping to be a PMA leader in the near future. I am so grateful for everything Janice is doing for us moms and this is just one example. She protects us and our children from this type of abuse. She is our shield. We are screened so no abusers can slip into PMA ( like certain obvious AMPPers) WE DO NOT PAY FOR THE SCREENING ourselves- another AMPP lie. Janice pays all of PMA bills including this one out of her own pocket. She takes the brunt of abuse for PMA keeping us members and leaders safe. She is everything opposite AMPP lies about her and so much more. God bless her heart for all she endures and does for us moms.

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  30. E.j That biscuit and ribs conversation was hysterical and got me really hungry. Had myself a snack after reading it. Thanks for lightening the mood. It needed it. Horrible abuse on Barry’s profile last night. What r u going to do about this Barry?

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  31. Great post, @ just wondering. Barry what would you do? i don’t think you’d like it so much if this was happenning to you. Some fine DV advocte ” expert” you are.

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  32. ok, this is what I am observing. It may be far fetched but also it could be real. I am a protective mom, and part of this mothers movement.I am on some groups email list for action alerts, news ect and I talk to other moms in the movement. I saw everything that went on the other night on Barry’s wall. At one point he made a comment suggesting mothers go to another group not involved with this dispute (dont remember his exact words). well, I wish he named the group bc this may have answered some questions. Here’s what i’ve noticed
    This cyber-bullying and abuse has been going on a long time on PMA
    Other new groups trying to form have been put out of existence due to AMPP’s bullying
    All these attacks are quite well organized
    A certain leader of a certain group has suggested a few times to make her the sole voice and representative for all protective moms. ( obviously this person is not Janice as she is being attacked)
    Her attempts at this were unsuccessful.
    This particular leader of this group works closely with AMPP and supports them
    What if AMPP is the attack dog sent by this group and leader to elimininate all other groups so this particular leader and group is the only one left standing?
    rumor has it this particular leader has aspirations to run for office and is using this movement as a vehicle to get there.
    something to think about and even investigate.

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  33. Unfortunately, both sides responded to my request for peace by attacking each other on my page. Many other protective moms joined me in asking that this stop. Unfortunately I was off the computer when a lot of inapproprate things were posted. I took down improper material from both sides and finally said I would unfriend anyone who continued.

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  34. Barry, There was no mutual attacking on your page. It was cyber-bullying. The victims were just trying to defend themselves and were respectful in doing so. Please don’t spread this misinformation , as bullies and abusers need to take responsibility for their actions if they have any hope to change. Abusive behavior should never be enabled. Other mothers were asking you to stand up for the victims against the attacks, including myself.

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